Wireless: How to Keep Our Home Environment Healthy

Each week, the WCH Mind Health Committee hosts engaging conversations on Telegram. On April 6, David Charalambous was joined by special guests Oliver Percel, from RF Info, EMF scientist Dr Magda Havas, and Sean Carney.

Tune in to this important conversation to learn more about the real and evidence-based dangers of radio frequency (RF) radiation, including wifi and 5G, and what you can do to keep you and your family safe.

Some of the websites discussed in this conversation include:

• RF Info
• GlobalEMF
• Electro Sensitive Society
• Zory Glaser

Join the WCH discussion group on Telegram to participate in future Connection Room events. 

[00:00:12] David Charalambous: so we’re just waiting for our guests to arrive so we can share them with you and share their insights.

[00:00:19] Jennifer Hibberd: While we’re waiting for our wonderful guests to come and join you, would you like to introduce the topic and just talk a little bit about it because you’re a wealth of information and everybody’s waiting to hear anything and everything that you have to say about this.

[00:00:37] David Charalambous: Yeah, so the, this is a very interesting topic and what’s really fascinating about it very much mirrors the asbestos topic. So many people around the world are really familiar with asbestos. And this was a substance that was really talked about as the miracle mineral. You know, there were so many thousands of products and it was houses made from it, fire blankets, all sorts of things.

[00:01:01] And it turned out that the science knowing the dangers of asbestos was actually known since 1898. What happened was that the dangers were suppressed and the paid experts, the scientists, the politicians, or the industry that was making so much money covered up all the negative opinions. 

[00:01:21] Now what’s fascinating is now that there’s sort of what we term as radio frequency radiation, which many of you will know as 5g and 4g, really mirrors what we’re seeing guide on from industry again. I was really startled to find out just how many scientific studies that are showing biological effects from radiation, from wireless really, really startled in the amount of them. I mean, on fertility alone, that I remember looking at 135 studies thinking, oh my God, this is incredible.

[00:01:54] So yeah, it’s very fascinating. I’ve also had a personal experience of having some issues with my health regarding the wireless. So when I, I sort of used old ethernet within my house, those issues really disappeared within a few days. So it’s really sort of seeing is believing. So, yeah, it’s a very fascinating topic.

[00:02:17] It’s one that I think the member pretty much in the countries that we’re in, we’ll be exposed to these things and, and it’s really something that we can significantly reduce our exposure to.

[00:02:30] So Emma, did Oliver arrive? 

[00:02:34] Emma Sron: We have all of our guests. I’ve given them all permission to speak, so they should be able to unmute themselves and turn on their cameras if they’d like to. 

[00:02:44] David Charalambous: Brilliant. So, Oliver, could you make a minute or two of your involvement in the radio frequency radiation? 

[00:02:52] Oliver Perceval: Sure. Yes, before I defer to a greater [inaudible] and experience. So I’ve been working for several years in the UK. So in the background there been some amazing pioneers and brute bringing a judicial review against the governments in Britain that have been adhering to the economic guidelines, of course.

[00:03:16] And in fact, the mandating this rollout. So there’s a lot of kickback, but as we all realize, the legal system is, is incredibly robust in refute. It has very, it will not listen to evidence. It will not listen to the public. It’s not democratic, and this is a problem in the world over. 

[00:03:36] But I’ve, I’ve been interested as a campaigner and also as an architect because obviously one of the key factors for healthy buildings is having a healthy electromagnetic environment. And we’ve known this for a hundred years, of course. 

[00:03:49] So when I realized again how the microwave radiation and the environment was intensifying there very rapidly, it was also doing so within the home. So I would also say that we must also, as ever, do the internal work, but literally internal to our home and not just our body, but the home. Because it’s too easy to get distracted with masts and the external hardware that’s being rolled out but do of course pay attention to mitigating the, the wifi and the mobile phone or the device radiation in your houses. Because that is our century, that is our safe zone.

[00:04:24] And as August, she made very clear to the United Nations, yeah, there is no safe place anymore, outside. So they’re, they’re vanishing very rapidly at least, so we need to make sure we clean up our houses. So I just said working with UK campaigners, trying to clarify the arguments more and more and more in apprehending the planning system and trying to alert counselors and planning officers to their duty of care. 

[00:04:50] And it’s incredible, it’s outrageous, it’s unlawful that they should be ignoring all this evidence and thinking they can hide behind guidelines, which the government are dressed up as mandatory, but they’re not. You know, policy is not law. It’s an uphill battle because as we know everybody has cognitive dissonance about this.

[00:05:11] It’s a complicated topic in some ways, but in other ways it’s incredibly simple and common sense. Which is why you tend to find the same people understanding the radiation issues as understands the COVID issues. It’s just about having a simple, common sense approach to understanding how life should and does work and not being baffled by experts.

[00:05:33] So, yeah, that’s my little background in the UK. But we should trust experts such as Magda. 

[00:05:38] David Charalambous: I think the key point there is the independent experts and that’s really key that the funding from where studies come from plays a significant role on, on the focus. 

[00:05:52] Oliver Perceval: I know we’ve got some very experienced UK campaigners on the call tonight as well. Well, one thing we’re trying to emphasize in presentations or representations to counselors is it is referring back to the New Hampshire commission study. Which actually was published, but where’s just, is just gone through legislation and hearings in America.

[00:06:14] But as we’re preparing two studies carried out over 10 years in Brazil covering about 1500 different sites and establishing the has to be a 500 meter setback systems for each mast to guarantee a slightly better than most sustainable level of public protection. It, rather than the official econ guidelines, which are roughly 50 meters.

[00:06:38] So, you know, the, the evidence is incredibly robust and these planning officials should be taking notes of that and applying precautionary refusals. And of course, [inaudible] approach, not even proportionally because there’s nothing to be cautious about, it’s preventative. They should be preventing this type of exposure within at least 500 meters. 

[00:06:57] But that’s public health, of course there are the much bigger issues, as well as the environmental impacts of 5g and 4g and this terrifying rollout, which is, it just crucifies any green targets that any government or self-respecting council wants to meet. But whatever we think about the validity of that even, but then pollution obviously is valid and and the surveillance issues.

[00:07:20] So there’s a, there’s a lot of angles to this, aren’t there David? 

[00:07:25] David Charalambous: Are you able to share your experience with the college?

[00:07:30] Oliver Perceval: Yes. My son is at a boarding school in Britain, which means that he lives he, he lives there, you know, they sleep there, that’s what boarding schools are in Britain and America and in their wisdom, they had decided to take out the ethernet, which was the old style connection, of course, and instill wifi access points in every single room, as well as of course, every classroom and every other public space in the college.

[00:07:59] And I was horrified because they, they’re sleeping in those rooms. 24 hours a day, they’re working, they’re sleeping there, and they’re in classrooms exposed to this radiation. And they are industrial grade routers. So when I first contacted the IT department, one of the staff members said that, that I shouldn’t be concerned because he’s got a physics degree.

[00:08:20] Do you know what happens next? So he was quite convinced that non-ionizing radiation has no, no effects on biological systems. So, you know, it took me about half an hour to do the research myself and find out that was complete nonsense. And it took two years to persuade the school to at least appoint an independent expert of their choice, who happened to have a knighthood [inaudible] military radar technology.

[00:08:49] So my hopes weren’t raised too much. But, to his credit, on page 13 of his report he had been persuaded by Dr Erica Mallery-Blythe’s evidence and witness statements. So except that there was at least enough of a smoking gun to warrant a precautionary approach where children are concerned.

[00:09:11] Which is what we all agree with. And, you know, that was my red line, but at night, at least there should be a white zone for the boys. It should be switched off in their bedrooms at night. That’s the low hanging fruit for a college, of course, just to switch it off at night.

[00:09:25] It doesn’t upset all the classroom etiquette. But at least they have that white zone now. And they did follow that advice from this guy. So they can take their lists. You know, they’ve done more than any other school because really, two and a half years of badgering them and not many parents are that stubborn.

[00:09:44] But we hope to set a benchmark perhaps for others. We’ve got liability notices ready to go out to schools in Britain now. 

[00:09:52] David Charalambous: Thank you for that, Oliver. I think what I’ve noticed when I talk to people, that sleeping issues is just one of the major things that we see with people. And I know that so many people I’ve spoke to who I said to them is turn your wifi off at night. Don’t have your phone near you. And the amount of times I’ve seen it, the next time they go, oh my God, I sleep so well now. 

[00:10:13] And that really I think is really the first door for a lot of people to go into. That when you experience and improve sleep from having no, you know, a cleaner, less radiated environment, then you start to realize, ah there might be something to this. 

[00:10:30] And obviously some, you know, it’s not so easy in modern day life to completely switch yourself off, but it’s actually relatively straightforward, isn’t it? To, to have a house completely ethernet. And as you, as Magda has connected her phone, so I’ve got a tablet and I have connected by ethernet. Now I have my laptop and all my applications. 

[00:10:49] So my phone is hardly ever accessing wifi or mobile data. I think that’s one of the easiest things that we can do. And you have on the site a lot of ways that people can do this? 

[00:11:01] Oliver Perceval: Yup. Yup. Hey. Yeah. So I’m the RF impo.co.uk site. The environmental health trust obviously is a fantastic resource as well, internationally. And there’s lots of tips on there for safer use of technology. None of us say safe use because there’s no such thing. But one point I do thread, you know, is just as a campaigner, is that fundamentally we mustn’t be afraid.

[00:11:29] So that stronger our vitality, the stronger our positivity that the more robust our ferric field, our emotional fields are, you know, physically, we will be more resilient to this. And obviously when we drop into fear, as with COVID, as with anything, we are more vulnerable. So please stay in a state of unconditional acceptance, but dynamic dynamic campaign, so frontline, frontline actions, be dynamic there, but to be unconditional in the way we approach the, the dangers as well.

[00:12:07] David Charalambous: So there’s also been a number of sort of court cases going on. And there’s, I think there’s a number of victories in a number of countries isn’t there, where they started to remove Wi-Fi in some schools.

[00:12:19] I think the dangers, they’re being recognized quite quickly, aren’t they, as things happen. 

[00:12:25] And there’s also many things that we can do that are really simple, aren’t they? That make life a lot easier and safer. Such as, you know, if you have your phone in your pocket and you’re a man, then it’s wise to have airplane mode on, or turn the mobile data and the wifi off.

[00:12:45] I mean, some of the studies, that hopefully when Magda comes on, there was a lot of studies and slides that she had shown that when you get to see with your eyes the things that are going on when they do the measurements with the sperm counts and the blood counts, et cetera, and this thing becomes very real, doesn’t it? It’s no longer this invisible thing. 

[00:13:08] Oliver Perceval: Yes. Yeah. Well, that was probably a lot of people here. There are thousands of studies dating back to the fifties, the Naval medical research Institute websites, and also the Australian based website. They’ve known about it forever and radiation sickness from radar, which has very long wavelength, as well. That has been known about for a long time. 

[00:13:32] And that’s total fallacy, that’s not a thermal only effect. Even mechanisms in terms of sort of physics are not entirely understood. The facts that we can see the effects, it is proof enough. Of course, isn’t it? 

[00:13:45] David Charalambous: Yeah. I recall reading the, the victims from, you know, if you were having too much exposure, the number one symptom was headaches. I know a lot of people were having increasing amounts of headaches over the last few years. 

[00:14:01] And then sleep was again, one of the top, the top symptoms. And of course there’s a sleep epidemic in the UK. 

[00:14:10] So what I find fascinating is that a lot of people- obviously we don’t want to believe that it’s dangerous. It would be much easier, wouldn’t it, if it was really safe. But I think the studies are very, very clear. And of course, when we, when we find this out, then the question is, how do we protect ourselves? How do we make sure our environment is healthy? 

[00:14:29] And of course it’s not something we want to believe is dangerous. So a lot of people will say, oh, well, yeah, if it was dangerous, then we would see an increase in illness. And of course, when you look there’s exactly that. A lot of the illness, because I remember looking at some Ollie Johanson’s statistics, but in the last 5 – 10 years, some of the increases have been really huge.

[00:14:53] And I know hopefully we get Ollie on one time and he’s, you know, some of the studies they’ve done- I remember a quote that he said that was really powerful. He said he sort of wishes every day that he was wrong. That it was safe. But the chances of that, the chance of there being twenty-five thousand studies proving dangers, all being incorrect is just almost non-existent isn’t it?

[00:15:17] Oliver Perceval: Yes. 

[00:15:18] David Charalambous: That’s why I think it’s it’s at this place where you really understand what the mechanisms are. And I think one of the most fascinating ones is this, and I don’t know if it’s, if it’s easy enough to give some analogy, is this VG CC, is it possible for a quick summary on this? 

[00:15:35] Oliver Perceval: Oh, well, yeah. [Inaudible] of research, voltage gated calcium channels. I feel Magda is probably better qualified to explain. It’s just, it’s incredible. We all know we’ve had to learn so much in the last three years or two years now about everything. And so it’s fascinating what people can learn just even about bio electronics or electro biology. Just to understand how incredibly sophisticated and sensitive that cell membrane is.

[00:16:06] So that cell membrane has all these different gates, which let in different salts. And they’re not just single charge gates, you know, activated by single charges. But also ones that are controlled by hormones and controlled mechanically. So ligand gates and all sorts of incredible gates.

[00:16:26] But Malton Powell discovered that the voltage gated channels are particularly sensitive of course, to pulsing electromagnetic radiation. So 17 million times more sensitive than other single charged groups in the body as well. 

[00:16:40] And so long story short, basically they’re getting interferrence. They get told to open when they should be closed and closed when they should be open, but more open than closed. So there seems to be an excess of calcium ion influx to the cells, and that causes a chain reaction in the cellular pathways, that proxy nitrites chain. And that leads basically to oxidative stress.

[00:17:03] We know everybody, even the NHS, know that the oxidative stress is a cause of cellular degeneration and devitalization. So I also think it’s called oxidative stress, but that comes on due to the plausible deniability of this radiation, with the symptomology and the nonlinear dose response as they call it, is so subtle that it can manifest in many different ways in many different people. There’s not just one symptom associated with radiation sickness. And it takes 10, 15, 20 years for us to show particular symptoms sometimes. 

[00:17:42] Even with the thermal effects, you know, these tumors against the head, it’s still taking 10 or 15 years generally to show up. So you can imagine that the non-thermal slightly more distant radiation effects could take a generation. 

[00:17:55] But that’s what they’re seeing with mice and rats, is nearly over the lifetime of a rat that you end up with these, with these problems. So it’s causing a more rapid decline in general health, it seems, and all this inflammation. 

[00:18:10] The plausible deniability, that’s the problem, you know, we can’t smell it, we can’t see it, we can’t taste it, touch it or hear it. And all the other industrial pollutants have had some association with our physical senses, but even then we can see them, touch them, smell them. It took 30 to 60 years to recognize and regulate most of those things.

[00:18:30] So it doesn’t look too hopeful. Our information is brilliant. You know, once we realize we can start taking steps, as David said, to to mitigate it in our homes and in our environment and to sow seeds with people, just to mention it. So we never know who’s going to pick up on it. And we can learn pretty quickly who won’t, and then just move on.

[00:18:50] David Charalambous: Yeah, I think one of the things that I, I think that people find really useful is the, the meters. 

[00:18:58] Oliver Perceval: Yeah. 

[00:18:58] David Charalambous: So do you want to say a few minutes? Because I, I, we crowd funded a meter in our hometown and we went around and measured people’s houses. So yeah. Could you, I mean, do you have a phone nearby that you could show someone a quick example?

[00:19:13] Oliver Perceval: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve got a phone, cause they are useful. But it’s usually on airplane mode. So if we turn this, people aren’t familiar with meters, that’s showing the background levels are very low. This is in micro Watts. Don’t worry too much about the units. Just go by the traffic lights.

[00:19:35] So that’s some of the background from the mast, a couple of miles away. And if I turn my phone on

[00:19:47] that’s booting up. And it goes on to Safari.

[00:19:58] David Charalambous: So that becomes very real, doesn’t it? The invisible becomes visible. 

[00:20:05] Now I remember reading a few of these documentations in some of the booklets of these meters, and it would say 60 millivolts was really what you want to aim for, being lower than that. And we went around and measured some of the masts in our local area and being sort of 200 yards away from them, we already have 2000 millivolts- so much, much, much higher. 

[00:20:32] And I think that what we can do in the short term is really reduce our exposure significantly by just some really simple things, as we talked about, ethernet on the computer, you know, turning the wifi off because a lot of the time the wifi is not being used, is it? You know, if someone’s on a laptop, there’s ethernet, there’s no need for it to be on. So yeah, it’s very, really simple steps. And you have those steps on the website, I do believe. 

[00:20:59] Oliver Perceval: Yes. Yup, under safer use of tech. I’m sure there are people here with other resources to share as well. – Trying to make, have safety numbers as well, many resources and lots of websites listed on my website. There are hundreds around the world. So a quick Google search as well. 

[00:21:19] Everything’s at our fingertips. But it’s amazing how reluctant sometimes we are to look for it.

[00:21:26] David Charalambous: So what was the first, the first exposure you had to realizing that there might be an issue? 

[00:21:33] Oliver Perceval: It was 20 years ago. I was, that was healthy buildings that training with geomancy. So actually that links back to the building biology Institute. They’re the ones that the power initiative report and other practitioners refer to as a reliable indicator of safe levels. So the building biology institute in Germany and they recommend levels, which are right down in green on these, on these meters. But it’s within a few months you learn about the invisible world.

[00:22:05] This is invisible physical, but we know of course that the invisible non-physical then there’s the invisible, geopathic stress, which is part of geomancy and other factors in the environment, which have a big effect on biology and life. They’re all there for a reason, but we need to sort of be a bit more sensitive to our environments and work out how to bring our houses into balance so they support us. 

[00:22:30] But then it all for me just came back, actually Sacha Stone’s film, you know, I don’t really know what part he’s on, but his film, the 5G Apocalypse, I’m very grateful for. A friend just texted it to me one day. And again, to me, that’s the power of, somebody gives you some unsolicited advice. You know, I welcome that, because I don’t know what I don’t know. 

[00:22:51] And if it’s not something that bugs me, just turn it off. But I watched it and that just woke me up to what’s been going on in the last 15 years with the with the increase of wifi and obviously the rollouts and improvements in mobile cellular technology.

[00:23:07] So yeah, the 5G Apocalypse, but yeah, moved on from that and there’s a lot of good sound resources out there. 

[00:23:17] I good recommend something, David, a home grown UK resource, which is the PHIRE, P – H – I – R – E, medical consensus statement, which was put together, it was collated and curated by Erica, Dr Erica Mallory-Blythe, we mentioned earlier, and that’s a fantastic study.

[00:23:38] She’s amazing at condensing this complex subject and it’s a fully referenced, fully credible evidence, from her experience in the expert witness as well. And she helps electrosensitive people. It’s about 10 pages long and it’s got three and a half thousands medical and scientific signatories to it, plus many thousands of public ones. But it’s very, it’s a very credible resource.

[00:24:02] And I think if you want the whole, the whole topic, in a nutshell, it’s a very accessible read being 10 pages. So it’s the Phire website, P – H – I – R – E. 

[00:24:13] David Charalambous: Thank you. Is that dot com? 

[00:24:16] Oliver Perceval: I’m just checking that. It’s linked from my page as well. 

[00:24:21] David Charalambous: This is one of the things that really fascinates me about when people make statements about, you know, any dangers to wireless being a conspiracy theory and all that.

[00:24:30] I never actually quite has substance to it. And pretty much like most of the things in the media, they pretend that there’s a consensus. But I think the consensus is quite the other way when it comes to radio frequency radiation. 

[00:24:42] Certainly when I look to the EMF scientist website, but I don’t know how many EMF scientists there can be in the world, but there’s hundreds of them that have signed the petition, isn’t there?

[00:24:52] Then there was another one where there was hundreds of thousands of people were signing petition to, to have, you know, guidelines looked into it. Wasn’t there? 

[00:25:01] Oliver Perceval: Yeah. As the U – as the EMF [inaudible] this one is PHIREmedical.org. So PHIREmedical.org.

[00:25:14] David Charalambous: So Magda, if you could introduce yourself briefly and describe some of the misconceptions of 5G for us. 

[00:25:22] Dr Magda Havas: Are you talking to me, David? I’m having such a- okay, the thing is I’m having a really hard time hearing what you’re saying. For some reason, my cell phone isn’t very loud and I can’t seem to connect it to the computer. I’m wondering if I could come back on a different day, David? And you know, once we’ve got this figured out using telegram, when you have to connect with a cell phone is the exact wrong thing. No offense meant, but we’re trying to get people off of their, you know, wireless technology. And if you’re using a computer, you can at least wire it. I can wire my cell phone, but for some reason, right now, it’s just not working with, you know, the little time I have to set it up. So I’m wondering if I could come back another time

[00:26:03] David Charalambous: Maybe Magda, can you give a few minutes, giving us just a couple of lines on the misconceptions of 5g. The common misconceptions. 

[00:26:14] Dr Magda Havas: Okay, great. I can do that. So there are a number of misconceptions about 5g. One is 5g stands for fifth generation wireless technology. We’ve had, you know, four previous generations that increased the number of channels that you can have.

[00:26:36] So change the frequency range that cell phones are communicating on, basically. So 5g represents fifth generation. Some people confuse it with five gigahertz, which is now being used for some wifi and as well as 2.4 gigahertz. So five is also being used and some people think that 5g and five gigahertz are the same thing and they’re not, they’re two totally different things.

[00:27:03] Five gigahertz is a frequency. It’s like a radio station that you use to communicate. So it’s a channel. That’s used to communicate. 

[00:27:13] The other misconception about 5g is that 5g consists of three different frequency bands. One is sub one gigahertz. [phone ringing] Another is sub five gigahertz and the third is sub six gigahertz, sorry. And the third is millimeter waves. 

[00:27:41] So we’ve got technology that is over three different frequency ranges. Most people think that 5g simply means millimeter waves. 

[00:27:51] What’s novel about 5g compared to 4g are the millimeter wave. So that’s what’s different because the millimeter waves are The millimeter waves are a really, really high intensity and really, really high frequency. 

[00:28:10] And because of that because of the high frequency, we’re unable to measure it on the devices. 

[00:28:15] I noticed that Oliver was using his Safe and Sound RF meter to show what levels are in his community. And what were doing is, we’re unable to measure the millimeter waves because the technology that he’s using goes up to eight gigahertz and a lot of the technology only goes up to eight gigahertz.

[00:28:37] So they’re designing new technology to actually measure the millimeter waves. Right now, it’s far too pricey for the, you know, average consumer, even for people who are professionally in this business is extremely expensive. But the good thing about it is that there are now maps where you can see if 5g has been activated in your community. 

[00:28:58] 5g, unlike the other frequencies, comes with something called a small cell. So it’s a fairly small device, an antenna that set up on, you know, power lines and, and other types of structures so that it can access information. Now with the millimeter waves, they travel only short distances because they’re absorbed by water very effectively.

[00:29:27] And so if it’s raining, for example, it’ll interfere somewhat with reception. So they actually put antennas, the small cell antennas, every 2- or 300 meters because they only reach a short distance. So basically when they’re rolling out 5g, the rolling out these small cell antennas. 

[00:29:45] Now we’ve done some work where we’ve had people monitoring streets with and without 5g activated. And they’re using the same meter that Oliver used previously. So we’re only measuring up to eight gigahertz. We can’t measure the millimeter waves. But if you measure, if you compare up to eight gigahertz on streets with, and without 5g activated, we’re finding that the levels are more than double. They’re much, much higher than they used to be.

[00:30:15] So when 5g comes into your community, you’re reacting potentially to all of the different frequencies. Even though we can’t measure the millimeter waves. 

[00:30:25] The millimeter waves are supposedly not going to penetrate buildings. So that’s, that’s good news. And they’re not supposed to penetrate the body very deeply.

[00:30:35] They penetrate just a few millimeters into the body, but that few millimeters is absolutely critical. We have a lot of nerve endings there. We have a sweat cells that are actually acting like antennas because they’ve got salty solutions, so they penetrate much more deeply. 

[00:30:53] And if the skin is affected, it can cause all sorts of problems from, you know, rashes to hives, to any kind of irritation. And anyone who’s had a skin irritation problem knows how awful that is.

[00:31:06] So the fact that they say that it only penetrates a few millimeters, isn’t something we should be happy about. Because it can still have a negative health effects. 

[00:31:16] And what we’re finding is once 5g comes into a community, a whole new group of people become sick. They start having the symptoms of electrosmog and that’s because their level of tolerance has now been exceeded.

[00:31:32] So those are the, really the key things about 5g millimeter waves. 

[00:31:36] It’s also used as active avoidance technology by the military. So they use 60, no, I think they use 90 gigahertz for this active denial system, which is trying to control crowds. 

[00:31:55] And what they do is they take a truck with a large antenna on it. They aim it at people who are in a crowd that they want to disperse, and they simply hit the trigger and it sends out a 90 gigahertz millimeter wave. That’s very powerful. And it heats the body instantly, incredibly painful. So anyone who has this, who is targeted by this technology can feel intense heat, very uncomfortable, and they get out of the way very quickly.

[00:32:26] So it’s an effective crowd control without being lethal, you know. Better 5g, sorry, better this active denial system than using guns, but it can still do a huge amount of damage, especially to the eyes. The eyes are very, very sensitive to any kind of microwave radiation and millimeter waves are micro waves.

[00:32:48] So the real damage is to the cornea of the eye and cataracts are one of the consequences. 

[00:32:54] So, you know, those are some of the key issues about 5g. The other thing that’s happening with 5g, because it has so much, such a large bandwidth for sending data, it means it’s going to be used where instantaneous access is necessary.

[00:33:10] So it’s going to be used in vehicles that are self driving vehicles. And it’s going to be used in a lot of other things that we can’t do right now. So there’s some consequences to drivers, right? If you’ve got 5g in your car and you’re electro hypersensitive and it affects your cognitive ability and your ability to react to a quick situation.

[00:33:31] So if someone drives in front of you and you’re not thinking fast enough, you might not be able to stop. So there’s a whole issue of people who are intolerant of this radiation to be driving safely because there’s some real concern that they might not be doing that. 

[00:33:47] Also some of the biological effects include rouleaux formation of the blood, heart problems. And, you know, people can end up having a heart attack if they’ve got a sensitivity there when they’re exposed to this because the blood starts coagulating and it becomes harder to get the blood moving through the blood vessels. So your blood pressure will go up. Your heart rate will go up.

[00:34:12] And if you’ve got sensitive heart you could even have a heart attack or stroke with the rouleaux formation of the blood. 

[00:34:19] So we’re talking about something that’s really life-threatening, especially if someone’s in a vehicle. They can not only affect their own lives, but other people as well.

[00:34:29] So with that, I can, I can just stop and turn it back to you, David. 

[00:34:33] David Charalambous: Thank you very much, Magda. Could I ask you just one question, which I think is one of the important things, is the effect on sleep. 

[00:34:41] Okay. Well, 

[00:34:42] Dr Magda Havas: I’m a terrific example of that. People have a huge amount of difficulty. One of the symptoms is interrupted sleep.

[00:34:51] They have difficulty falling asleep. They have difficulty staying asleep. If they wake up in the middle of the night, they have difficulty going back to sleep and they wake up exhausted. So that’s something that will ultimately lead to fatigue. And if it’s long enough, it’ll be chronic fatigue. 

[00:35:08] And certainly I have difficulty with my sleep. I’m trying all sorts of things.

[00:35:14] And one of the things that you can do for that is simply make sure that your bedroom is as electromagnetically clean as possible. Make sure that the levels are green on the meter. If you happen to have a meter. And that you, you don’t have your bed near any kind of electric devices. So sometimes even moving your bed away from a wall is important because there’s electricity flowing through the wall. And some people are actually sensitive to the low frequency electric and magnetic fields coming from electricity. 

[00:35:47] So it definitely interferes with sleep. And the real problem with that is that our bodies heal when we’re sleeping, that’s when all the healing takes place. And so if you can’t fall asleep, you’re not going to heal.

[00:36:00] And consequently, any illness you have is simply going to get more and more severe. So a lot of the chronic illnesses that we have, mostly things like neurological illnesses, both in children and adults, is increasing exponentially. Particularly in the United States. And I don’t know why it’s worse than the United States in places like the UK, for example, or Canada.

[00:36:25] But there’s evidence that it’s really having some very serious neurological consequences that are meeting to deaths. So we’re not talking about minor neurological disturbances. So sleep is incredibly important. Not using your computer, not being exposed to blue light, for example one or two hours before sleep is critical.

[00:36:47] But sometimes even that isn’t enough because you’re exposed in your bedroom to radio frequency radiation. And having your cell phone next to you when it’s on in the bedroom is probably the worst thing you can do because cell phones periodically connect to an antenna. And so every few minutes, you’re going to get a zip going through that.

[00:37:06] Your body’s going to be exposed to if it’s within an arm’s length.

[00:37:12] David Charalambous: Thank you Magda, that’s very important information. I think going forward, people can obviously access this. I think the beauty of tonight is really people, you know, seeing it firsthand, getting to see the conversation. 

[00:37:26] I know, certainly from my own experience, we went and bought, we crowd funded a really good meter and I went through and measured my whole house.

[00:37:36] And it was really only, took me probably a day, to promote the solutions. And my house is pretty much free now. It’s almost zero. And I noticed a huge difference to my health. This was a number of years ago I did this. And I periodically just check to make sure. And then I- there was one point I think about six months ago, I wasn’t sleeping very well and I didn’t know why. Measured. And then I, then it turned out the upstairs, they put a wifi booster in the hallway. It’s right above my bedroom. But because I’m the landlord, I was fortunately able to go up and said you need to move this and then the sleep went back to normal.

[00:38:13] So yeah, it’s something that those people that have seen the difference really, you know, you don’t need to convince someone when you- I’ve said to so many people turn your phone off and then see how you sleep. And once you experience you go, okay. Because our conscious mind, it wants to believe that everything’s okay, but when you get a beautiful night’s sleep after not sleeping well, then that’s, that’s all the convincing that anyone needs really, isn’t it? 

[00:38:39] Dr Magda Havas: Yeah. I agree with you. One of the things I recommend to people is to turn off anything wireless in their home. Disconnect the electricity from the bedroom, if they can and see how they sleep. And if their sleep improves that tells them the whole story. 

[00:38:55] David Charalambous: Brilliant. And you’ve been studying this for many years now. And of course we were talking earlier, this isn’t just a theory that started this. There’s literally tens of thousands of studies, isn’t there? 

[00:39:05] Dr Magda Havas: Oh yeah. This has been ongoing since the early 1900s. Believe it or not. It was called neurasthenia then, which means a weakening of the nervous system, which is a perfect label for electrical hypersensitivity.

[00:39:21] Cause the primary effect is on the nervous system. It affects more systems in the body, but the nervous system is one of them. And it came from telegraph operators who were plugging in the, you know, the links for the telephones or the telegraphs then. And they developed this illness, it went to court and they won. Their hours were reduced because they were, they were collapsing. They were having bleeding episodes. Like it was really quite serious how the women were, and it was mostly, almost entirely women who were affected. 

[00:39:53] And then it was called microwave sickness during the war when they first started using radar and all of the symptoms of neurasthenia were identical to microwave sickness. And that was the sort of the second wave. 

[00:40:08] And then eventually- originally, the only source of exposure was antennas near airports and military installations. Right? And now we’ve got wifi in schools. We’ve got it in our homes. We’ve got microwave radiation absolutely everywhere that we never had. 

[00:40:26] I have one picture of the globe where we compare 2004 to about 2020. Let’s say huge change in wifi everywhere, globally, particularly in, you know, Europe and North America, but certainly globally. And the levels are just going up astronomically. With 5g we’ve now got yet another huge increase in our exposure. And so more and more people are getting sensitive because their level of tolerances is being exceeded.

[00:40:57] The World Health Organization didn’t like the term electro hypersensitivity. So they recommended idiopathic environmental intolerance, which means we don’t know the cause of something in the environment that’s affecting these people. They said, this is real, it’s debilitating, but we’d like to call it idiopathic environmental intolerance. And that’s because we don’t know what’s actually causing it. 

[00:41:22] And when they first came up with this in 2004 at a meeting in Prague that I attended, I thought it was a cop-out. And you, you sort of reacted David, when I said idiopathic environmental intolerance. And I thought about it a lot. And it’s not a cop-out, there are lot of things can make people electrically hypersensitive, precursors to it, and we’ve come up with five or six now.

[00:41:48] And that helps doctors treat the patients. Because if you’ve developed electro hypertensitivity because you had a concussion that’s affected your central nervous system, you treat that person differently than someone who has a very high mercury load either from, you know, eating too much fish or from having mercury amalgam fillings, or from having a lot of vaccines, you know, whatever the cause. If you’ve got high loads of mercury and you’re electrosensitive, a doctor would treat that person very differently than someone who was sensitive because of concussion.

[00:42:23] So by working with people for such a long time, we know that some of the precursors, we know how to help some of them. And we’re getting more and more doctors involved. The medical community’s beginning to embrace this because they have patients coming in that they can’t treat because they go home into a toxic environment and all their symptoms reoccur, whatever they are.

[00:42:44] So you can’t treat them to the symptom unless you treat the cause. 

[00:42:49] David Charalambous: Thank you. Yeah. I think one of the things that we were talking about earlier, and I think I’m very grateful to people like yourself Magda, because it’s the area of research that you work in is obviously not accepted by a business, is it? You know, it hurts their pockets. So the fact that you pushed through and many people like you push through. 

[00:43:08] But I was really startled how many hundreds of EMS scientists worldwide know about this, but they’re not able to voice that, you know, they don’t get media time on the mainstream to really share this with the public. Which is why these sessions that we’re having here are very, very important for the public to see firsthand, you know, an expert like yourself saying yeah, this is very real. It’s not just some theory, is it? 

[00:43:31] I mean, when you think in your industry that I can’t imagine that anyone can look at those studies and not think, hang on, something’s not right here. 

[00:43:39] Dr Magda Havas: I agree with you entirely. It’s just like, you know, but with a lot of environmental stressors, whether we’re talking about lead or mercury or asbestos or whatever. The industry has to get its back up. Right? Cause their job is to, you know, maintain their, you know, economic balance and make it positive. So they’re going to deny it. They’re not the ones you go to to get information. You go to independent scientists who aren’t being funded by the industry. 

[00:44:06] Unfortunately, a lot of scientists are funded by the industry and they will simply spout the industry- you know, how they can live with themselves, I don’t know. But, but so our scientific system is actually affected because if the editors don’t recognize the value of the research, then it won’t get published. And if it’s not published, it’s not science, you know, it has to be published in a peer reviewed journal through credibility.

[00:44:33] And so there’s problems there. There’s problems with funding. I’ve never received a penny of funding for all the research I’ve done. It’s all been out of pocket with other people, you know, contributing different things to it. So there’s a funding problem. There’s a publication problem. There’s a problem with acceptance by the medical profession because their medical authorities are saying, you know, this doesn’t exist, it’s not in our records. 

[00:44:58] And so it’s really hard to convince medical doctors who aren’t familiar with this to accept it as an issue. And then there’s the political system that a lot of our government agencies have been infiltrated by the, the technology, the industry. 

[00:45:16] And so Health Canada, which is our health authority, sets the guidelines. And they’ve set the guidelines at something that is no longer useful. It’s a heating effect. And so we’re having people reacting at levels that are less than 1% of the Canadian guidelines. And in the UK, you’ve got one of the worst health protection, you know, radiation protection agencies. It is so corrupt. I can’t believe that it’s still functioning. You’ve got some of the worst guidelines in the world. And the Canada and the US are not far behind. 

[00:45:49] So, you know, getting the government to establish appropriate guidelines is really hard because they’ve been infiltrated by industry and they get money from industry. And same with the media, you know, they won’t report on it. 

[00:46:01] David Charalambous: He who pays the piper chooses the tune. But I think, I certainly think when I talk to a lot of people within the campaign around this very important subject, it’s changing, isn’t it? When you think about what it was like three years ago to what it’s like today, people really hang on a minute. You know, when there’s enough smoke coming out of the kitchen, people begin to ask.

[00:46:21] And I tend [inaudible] to people is I think when enough studies and particularly, I think what’s happened over the last two years, people are starting to- when they’re told many, many things and they turn out not to be true, they start to question the person telling them, you know, it has to happen. You know, it’s the boy that cried wolf, isn’t it?

[00:46:38] So I think certainly, you know, that’s why I’m very grateful for the work that you’ve done and many of the other scientists in just continuing with this. And particularly with the audience, if you, you know, if you experience yourself, an improvement in your health, and really there’s so much in the campaign that’s needed- I know there’s so many campaigners in this country that, you know, they work tirelessly for no money trying to get these masts, not, you know, make sure they don’t get erected near schools.

[00:47:05] The big one recently, I think it was in [inaudible] where they were trying to put a 5g mast right next to a school. And again, probably managed to get, you know, it stopped. It’s just crazy now. So, you know, you don’t need a mast right next to a school do you? You know, we need to protect our children. So, yeah. So thank you very much for coming on, Magda.

[00:47:23] And yes, it’d be lovely to have your time in the future. We can iron out these technical difficulties. But the reason we do this, because we really want the viewers to have this kind of connection with the people that we speak to, you know, we want this to be this seamless, you know, having access to this information.

[00:47:41] So, you know, thank you for your wonderful insights and it’s been lovely to meet you. 

[00:47:47] Dr Magda Havas: Thank you, David. 

[00:47:49] David Charalambous: Jennifer, the- 

[00:47:50] Jennifer Hibberd: -question. Yeah. And Magda, maybe you can help with this too, cause I’m sure a lot of people listening would like to know. You talked a little bit about just identifying with the, the frequency meter. What about anything that we could use to protect ourselves because there’s all these little attachments you can put on your phone and your computer, how effective are these? And I know I’ve heard about the there’s paint that you can put on your walls too, to help. I mean, I think this is all resource information everyone wants to know about, and then it, you know, of course it crosses over even to, you know, water and how you keep it all pure.

[00:48:30] Is there- do you have information that you can tell us about that a little bit? 

[00:48:35] Dr Magda Havas: Yeah, there’s actually, it’s a growing industry because people don’t want to be exposed. So shielding yourself is definitely possible. There’s paint, as you mentioned. There’s wallpaper, that’s impregnated with a carbon compound that also absorbs the radiation and that’s better than paint because if you paint your home and then you leave and you’ve got rooms in there that are shielded against RF radiation, and someone moves in who uses their cell phone, their cell phone is going to power up even more because of the shielding. So paint is an iffy thing because it’s hard to remove. But you could put wallpaper up for example, that will do the same thing.

[00:49:18] There’s fabric that is consists of silver fibers that will shield against the radiation. And what people do is they put them up as curtains, for example. It lets the light in, but it doesn’t let the radiation in. It blocks it by about 95 to 99%, depending on the mesh size. They also put it on as a canopy around their beds so they can sleep. So they’re, if they’re in an environment unlike David, who, you know, who was able to reduce it. If you can’t reduce your exposure, you can put a canopy around your bed. It’s all around your bed, including under the bed. And this produces a Faraday cage and it helps sleep. So that’s another thing that you can do.

[00:49:59] There’s film, you can put on your windows and some people who drive around and are affected by the antennas as they’re driving, will put this shielding, this film on their windows and it will block the radiation considerably. So there’s a lot of products like that, that do work. 

[00:50:16] Then there are devices that you can put either on your phone, on your computer, or on your body. And many of them have not been appropriately tested. We’ve tested a few of them and they’ve had some minor beneficial effects, but not for everyone. So just like not everyone is sensitive to this radiation in a way that they develop symptoms, not everyone benefits from these devices. And in some cases, the devices don’t actually work and they give people the false sense that, oh, I can be exposed and I’m ok.

[00:50:46] We’re actually working with a few developers, testing their products. And so far we haven’t come up with anything that tests, tests well with a lot of different people. So we’re, we’re working on that. 

[00:50:58] The other thing I just wanted to mention very briefly, cause I realize our time is up with electro hypersensitivity, we’re actually working on a questionnaire for the public and for doctors with their patients so they can determine to what degree they’re electrically sensitive.

[00:51:15] And we’ve also got an organization called the global EMF monitoring project. And there we’ve got volunteers from around the world, monitoring radiation in their environment, using the same meter that Oliver used earlier. And we’re putting that on a map. So anyone’s got access to it. The next thing we’re going to do is measure cars to look at cars that have low radio frequency radiation. And the website for that is globalEMF.net.

[00:51:48] So to look at the map and to zoom in on it, someone in your community may have already done measurements. We have very few people from the UK, by the way, we have a lot of people from Canada in the United States and from other countries in the world, but we could certainly use more people from Europe and the UK for this.

[00:52:04] So that’s what we’re working on trying to help people determine if they’re electro hypersensitive, what they’re reacting to, and how to clean up their environments. And then helping them with exposure in their community.

[00:52:19] Jennifer Hibberd: What’s a wealth of information. Thank you so much. And you know, I’m not surprised to hear that, that these products, because they’re, you know, pushed out so quickly and it’s a, you know, quick way to, to make money at the expense of people’s fear. And so I’m really glad to hear that you’re involved in testing these.

[00:52:41] And is there another site that we should be watching to see the value of different products? Just an assessment? 

[00:52:49] Dr Magda Havas: There’s a really good site. It’s called the electrosensitivesociety.com – electrosensitivesociety.com – and they’re a really good friend of mine, runs the website and she helps people who are electrically hypersensitive. She does one-on-one counseling. She does all sorts of amazing things. She’s got a technique that deals with trauma because this causes trauma in individuals and you have to deal with the trauma as well. You have to reset the brain not to be afraid of this radiation. And so she does that type of work with medical doctors as well. So the electrosensitivesociety.com is a really good one. 

[00:53:29] If you go to Zory Glaser, Z – O – R – Y – G – L – A – S – E – R. That particular site – .com – that particular site has references dating back to the late 1800s that have been done on this. We got that from a microwave expert who worked for the US Navy and we’ve taken all of his documents and scanned them and put them on the website. So if you want to look at older references, how the safety codes were designed, it’s all there on that particular website. So ZoryGlaser.com. 

[00:54:05] So those are, you know, some really good websites for people to go to. 

[00:54:11] Jennifer Hibberd: This is wonderful to hear. Thank you so much for your wealth of information. I wonder if at some point in the very near future, we could bring you back and also your very close friend from Electro Sensitive Society. You think that’s a possibility?

[00:54:25] Dr Magda Havas: Definitely. She’d love to help. She’s been really good with people all over the world. So she, she’s fantastic. Has incredible patience to work with these people who are really, really suffering. 

[00:54:40] Jennifer Hibberd: That would be amazing. Cause that’s what this is all about in the connection room. So thank you so much. You have any questions there from anybody else I’ve been kind of occupying- 

[00:54:51] David Charalambous: Yeah, I’m conscious that we’ve, we’ve taken up your time, Magda. Thank you very much for your help. And we will, we will reach out to, to meet again and, you know, smooth these technical problems out. But I think the information is really gold that you shared. So thank you very much. And thank you for your work. 

[00:55:08] Dr Magda Havas: You’re very welcome. 

[00:55:10] David Charalambous: And I think just wrapping up maybe Oliver, did you want to just come back to share with the UK listeners the place they can also- 

[00:55:19] Oliver Perceval: Yeah, David yes. Well, one of our main campaign websites is RFinfo. So Radio Foxtrot info.co.uk. And I crossreferenced a lot of the sites that Magda just shared as well. And the tips and ways to mitigate it, plus all the backgrounds, the political history, and the scientific evidence and so on.

[00:55:42] On the homepage, there’s a click through to our masts objection, sort of resources you just to stuff, you know, we’re not, we need everybody contributing of course, but we’ve sort of put together what we feel are the most powerful, relevant arguments, according to planning law and so on at the moment.

[00:56:00] So we try to keep it pretty up to date. And also that the action against 5G websites, which follows the Michael Mansfield case and the new grounds for appeal, and that’s got amazing resources. 

[00:56:11] All the legal actions are listed that are being taken across the world. It’s quite a, it’s a staggering list. Isn’t it? It’s the amount of legal actions over the last 10, 15 years. And the very crucial FCC versus CHT one in August 2021. They’re staggering, 11,000 pages of evidence. And of course the FCC was sent back to do their homework, but that doesn’t seem to have a dent on changing any regulations. Of course. 

[00:56:36] David Charalambous: I think the other thing to point out is that a lot of the campaigners have had a lot of success in stopping a lot of the masts, haven’t they?

[00:56:44] Oliver Perceval: Well essentially, the masts in Britain, the- actually in Britain, Magda, the 5G is still the 4g LTE, basically it’s the new, new radio one spectrum sub six gigahertz.

[00:56:56] We don’t have the millimeter wave yet, but we do have the beam forming in some of the low frequency masts apparently. It’s very hard to get a straight answer out of any of the engineers. Not because they’re feeling suspicious. I think they just don’t know. But the, what was that saying? The resources for the planners that, that, that, 

[00:57:17] David Charalambous: -that we’ve managed , that the campaigners have managed to object to?

[00:57:23] Oliver Perceval: About 60-70% of new masts are refused, but that that’s actually just on grounds of sighting and appearance. Well, officially. We, we’re not sure that many counselors at all have taken on board the health arguments, let alone use them. They might be turning them down under the official criteria of sighting and appearance, the very narrow interpretation of that constriction or restriction.

[00:57:47] And they might secretly be wanting to do it for public health reasons, but we haven’t seen any evidence for that. It’s just about homing, but I think any questions I’m sure from the public, from the audience. 

[00:58:00] Dr Magda Havas: There is a website that allows you, that basically documents where all the different generation cell towers are globally. I’m trying to find it on my computer, cause it’s not something I use on a regular basis, but I’ll try to find it before this ends. And if I can’t, I’ll send it to David and he can send it out to everyone. 

[00:58:19] So it’s a, it’s a site that shows you, you can zoom in on any country, any city, and it’ll show you where the 5g is, 4g, LTE, 4g, all of that kind of stuff.

[00:58:31] David Charalambous: Thank you, Magda. The takeaway here is that we will, obviously there’s a lot of websites that have been listed. So I think for ease with, we get a little post together when we post those on the telegram group, so they can know what to access. 

[00:58:45] But there is certainly, I think the good news is there’s certainly a wealth of information here. There’s a lot of brilliant people working on this. So yeah, there’s, I think there’s going to be a a season of change going forward. 

[00:58:57] So, thank you very much to the guests. It’s been wonderful. We did have another guest, Sean. I don’t know if Sean’s there, Jennifer or Emma, just to, he quickly wanted to say something or if there was any last questions, Jennifer, that you were aware that coming from the audience?

[00:59:15] Sean Carney: Hello?

[00:59:20] David Charalambous: Yeah, Sean. So maybe if you could give us just a minute or two of the paper that you had published and the, the letter that you spoke about. 

[00:59:31] Sean Carney: Yeah. My letter to the government was published on Principia scientific website, and it’s receiving a lot of different attention and it’s being shared widely, which is really good.

[00:59:45] The intention behind the letter was to contact all of the government, each one of them by email sending them the same letter and basically confront them with the information. And it’s received backing from the scientists and other interested parties, campaigners, and really, it’s just an addition, really, to getting the information out to, to the right people or maybe the wrong people as well, we’ll find out.

[01:00:18] So it’s, it’s just putting the information between their eyes. I know that’s what we’re all trying to do. But that was just my effort. And it’s, it’s leading to some very interesting contacts and opportunities to help promote you know, the very real danger of 5g and wireless technology. 

[01:00:41] Jennifer Hibberd: Sean, are you able to share your letter? Possibly put it in the chat. And if you’d like to come on screen with Magda we’d, we’d love to meet you visually too.

[01:00:53] Sean Carney: Oh, I haven’t got my video set up. I’m just a voice right now. 

[01:00:58] David Charalambous: But I think the key point is that we often think, you know, not one person can make a difference, but it’s usually a few people that do when you look through history. So really I’ve been so inspired by so many of the campaigners where it just, they say, well, I’ve had enough of this and they just take it upon themselves and they, and they really get things done.

[01:01:21] I think that’s- when we collectively put our efforts together, I think we can do amazing things. So I think that’s really a, probably a lovely note to finish on. But certainly we’re going to put a post together of all these resources and, and certainly we’d love to have Magda back and have a conversation in the future. And we can collect-

[01:01:43] So if anyone does have any questions by, that I haven’t had answered tonight, then please pop those in the telegram channel. We can collect those and address those. 

[01:01:53] Sean Carney: Okay. I just posted my letter in the chat. So it’s there for anybody who wants to read it. 

[01:01:59] David Charalambous: Thank you. And, and I think you know, obviously when we’re doing things like this, we’re going to have the odd technical hiccup, you know, we don’t have the large resources of these big corporations, but hopefully you’ll see the authenticity of this, where we want to bring the science directly to the public and we really want everyone to see it. 

[01:02:15] And you’ll see the, you know, when you see independent scientists, you’ll see that they’re doing it because they care and they’re really concerned with the truth. It’s not, it’s not because they have something else to gain. 

[01:02:24] So thank you all our guests. And yes, we will see you again in the Connection Room soon.

[01:02:32] So that’s all from us. Thank you all. 

[01:02:36] Jennifer Hibberd: Thank you, join us again next week. We’ll have another interesting talk and interactive with everybody. This was wonderful. Thank you, so brilliant. Okay. It’s true. 

[01:02:46] David Charalambous: Have a lovely evening, lovely rest of your week, all. Thank you. And goodbye. 

[01:02:50]