Going Beyond the Measles Scare: Facts, Myths & Effective Strategies

Join us as we go beyond the hype and explore the facts, myths, and effective strategies for measles with our guest Dr Jayne Donegan.

Natural ways to protection against childhood infection

About Dr Jayne Donegan

• Dr Donegan is a Homeopathic and Naturopathic Practitioner registered with the Homeopathic Medical Association, Homeopathy International and the Association of Naturopathic Practitioners. She is a member of the British Society of Ecological Medicine and a patron of the College of Naturopathic Medicine.
• Dr Donegan qualified in medicine at St Mary’s Hospital Medical School, University of London, in 1983. She trained in accident & emergency medicine, orthopaedics & trauma, paediatrics, neonatal intensive care, obstetrics & gynaecology, ENT, dermatology and general medicine. She gained postgraduate qualifications in child health, obstetrics & gynaecology and general practice before becoming a family doctor.
• In 1990, she began to study homeopathy and naturopathic principles. She gained her Certificate of Specialist Accreditation in Medical Homeopathy of the Faculty of Homeopathy, London in 2008. In 2017, she was awarded an advance postgraduate diploma in mental health.
• Learn more about Dr Donegan on her website.

We’ll also be live on Rumble, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn & Gettr.

Hello and welcome to Better Way Today. Today is Monday, the 25th of March, and we’re so glad you’re here with us. If you’re joining us live, please take a moment wherever you’re watching, whether it’s on our website or Rumble or Twitter to say hello in the chat or the comments and let us know where you’re tuning in from. Today’s guest is Dr. Jane Donegan. Dr. Donegan is a homeopathic and naturopathic practitioner registered with the Homeopathic Medical Association, Homeopathy International, and the Association of Naturopathic Practitioners. She’s a member of the British Society of Ecological Medicine and a patron of the College of Naturopathic Medicine. But before we get to that, we have some news and announcements for you. In the aftermath of Richard’s enlightening webinar that happened last week on the five primal fears, the World Council for Health Mind Health Committee is inviting you to delve deeper into experiencing the clearing of these five Fs. As you reflect on the ways in which these fears have been manipulated to influence public opinion and control behavior, you’ll find yourself navigating through the realms of anger, fear, loss, separation, and control with newfound clarity and insight. Imagine immersing yourself in scenarios where anger no longer provokes irrational reactions, fear loses its grip on your perceptions, and loss ceases to evoke a sense of urgency and vulnerability. Through this immersive journey, you’ll recognize how separation tactics are used to isolate individuals and how control mechanisms limit exposure to alternative viewpoints. By understanding where these fears originate in your brain and experiencing them in their purest form, you’ll empower yourself to reclaim agency over your thoughts and actions, breaking free from their manipulative hold. Please note that this event is actually happening in place of a previously scheduled quantum healing with Jerry Pives. Jerry will be back in April with another quantum healing session. So if you did register for that one, you’re actually already registered for this. So you should have seen an email in your inbox from Zoom with information about that. This event is going to take place on Zoom at that same registration link. That link is available at worldcouncilforhealth.org slash mindhealth. The WHO’s international health regulations amendments and proposed pandemic treaty or accord demand rigorous scrutiny and critical engagement from civil society, governments, public health workers, and lawyers. The lack of meaningful national engagement with civil society and marginalized communities undermines the legitimacy and effectiveness of the negotiation process, reinforcing perceptions of top-down decision-making and exclusionary practices within the WHO. It is primarily for this reason, in addition to the WHO’s failures and conflicts of interest, that the World Council for Health is obliged to present an expert hearing to both independently appraise the WHO’s conduct and process and discuss strategies to counter the WHO’s expansion of power. This expert hearing is taking place tomorrow on the 26th of March at 6 p.m. UTC. Public participation during the expert hearing will be encouraged. You can learn more and you can watch live at worldcouncilforhealth.org slash WHO withdrawal. Next week’s Better Way Today guest is our very own Shabnam Palais-Mohammed. Shabnam will share about our new legal brief on preventing the abuse of human rights through public health emergencies. She’ll also share more about that expert hearing that we just heard about. You’re invited to embark on a journey to holistic well-being at the first of its kind in the UK happening this June, the Better Way Detox Fair. Bringing together a blend of allopathic and holistic practitioners, this unique event promises a fusion of traditional and alternative approaches to health. You’ll enjoy enlightening discussions and gain insights from panel discussions of leading health experts as they share detox protocols and address your questions, guiding you towards optimal well-being through natural means. Learn how to detox from heavy metals, which are often found in vaccines and other medical interventions. Understand more about parasites and cancer and find out how to take a digital detox. Network with like-minded individuals and exhibitors on a beautiful 220-acre organic farm. This fair will empower and educate you to take action to optimize your health, boost your immune system, and improve your well-being. Join us at the Better Way Detox Fair in June in the UK and embark on a journey towards holistic wellness. Tickets are on sale now at betterwayevents.org. The Michigan Health Choice Alliance believes that all Michigan residents have the basic human right to make health choices on behalf of themselves, their children, and patients without coercion, threat, or penalty, particularly by our own government. They envision a Michigan population who is healthy, free of disease and toxic exposures, and believe each individual or parent is in charge of our own health. On the 4th of April, MHCA is hosting Dr. Peter McCullough in Southfield, Michigan for a fundraising event. Learn more and purchase tickets at mihealthchoice.org. The German-speaking independent network of scientists and doctors invites you to an online conference on the 5th of April titled, How Do We Protect Ourselves from 5G and the WHO? Several experts from different specialist areas will provide answers to these questions of what they can contribute from their profession to answering this highly topical question. The conference is free of charge and can be watched via the group’s YouTube channel and Twitch channel. Both of those can be seen on the slide on the screen right now. The video recordings will also be available online later. For more information, you can go to the group’s website. That is corona-solution.com. Is our future being planned without our consent? What is the WEF and UN Agenda 2023 endgame? Are these organizations as benevolent as they say? Come to London on the 11th of April and hear cutting-edge speakers joining the dots and explaining how the changes that we are seeing in our infrastructures and lifestyles are being dominated by top-down agendas. Our very own Dr. Tess Laurie is hoping to speak at this event as well. This event also includes practical solutions to empower us to keep a free society, and it will include a special screening of Mark Sharman and Oracle Films’ new documentary. Tickets are available on Eventbrite. And coming up at the end of April is this exciting conference in Costa Rica. A few weeks ago, I had the pleasure of sitting down with one of the organizers for an interview to learn more about this event. If you missed it, I encourage you to go back and take a listen and be sure to share with any of your friends you have in Latin America. You can just search Costa Rica on our website and you’ll be able to find the interview. You can learn more about the event and register to attend in person on their website at MOVLIBR.org. Sorry, let me start again. M-O-V-L-I-B-E-R-T-A-D-C-R dot com slash inscriptions. Have you visited the WCH online shop? We’re constantly adding new items, including books, EMF protection products, and vitamins and supplements. Visit shop.worldcouncilforhealth.org to take a look and be sure to check out our new rewards program. You can start earning rewards today. Unfortunately, Kristoff is unable to join us today, but we won’t let that stop us from going over some of the latest news with a positive spin. I’m sure you’ve heard the great news. A settlement has been reached between the FDA and the plaintiffs in a groundbreaking case filed in federal court to decide if the FDA violated its authority as a federal health agency in telling the public to stop taking ivermectin, a safe, well-studied, and proven drug for the prevention and treatment of COVID-19. In the settlement, the FDA agreed to remove website and social media posts that make statements about using ivermectin for COVID-19. Our partner, the FLCCC, has issued a statement that is available on their website. And it looks like our friend Dr. Pierre Corey had a chance to celebrate the good news with a horse. The Epoch Times reports on a recent study out of Japan. According to the study, receiving blood transfusions from COVID-19 vaccinated individuals could pose a medical risk to unvaccinated recipients since numerous adverse events are being reported among vaccinated people. The preprint review published on March 15th examined whether receiving blood from COVID-19 vaccinated individuals is safe or poses a health risk. Many nations have reported that mRNA vaccine usage has resulted in post-vaccination thrombosis and subsequent cardiovascular damage, as well as a wide variety of diseases involving all organs and systems, including the nervous system. The impact of such genetic vaccines on blood products, as well as the actual damage caused by them, are currently unknown, the authors wrote. In order to avoid these risks and prevent further expansion of blood contamination and complication of the situation, we strongly request that the vaccination campaign using genetic vaccines be suspended and that a harm-benefit assessment be carried out as early as possible. The review was funded by members of the Japanese Society for Vaccine-Related Complications and the Volunteer Medical Association. The authors did not declare any conflict of interest. The first Ban the Jab resolution was just passed in North Carolina, as well as the first in Texas. The Texas resolution reads in part, the Texas governor and state legislature are called to prohibit the sale and distribution of COVID-19 injections and all mRNA injections in Texas. Congratulations to everyone working on these local resolutions. Keep up the good work. And we really hope to see more of this all around the world. Reclaim the Net reports civil liberties supporters sue Trudeau’s government for freezing bank accounts. Twenty plaintiffs heavily embroiled in the 2022 Freedom Convoy have initiated a legal battle against Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and other high-ranking members of his cabinet at the Ontario Supreme Court of Justice. The lawsuit results from the government’s decision to freeze their financial assets under the measures of the Emergencies Act, an act which they feel breached their charter rights. The lawsuit seeks not only financial compensation, but also legal affirmation that the defendants committed an illegal act by ordering the seizure of bank accounts. We’re wishing them the best. According to a report from the Gateway Pundit, the Tennessee State Senate has taken a definitive stance against the controversial topic of chemtrails by passing Senate Bill 2691, House Bill 2063. And it is indeed controversial. The title you see on the screen there is the one put out by the Tennessean. They say Tennessee Senate passes bill based on chemtrails conspiracy theory. What to know? And going on with the Gateway Pundit, they say the bill aims to ban the intentional release of chemicals into the atmosphere for geoengineering purposes. The legislation is predicated on the claim that it is documented that federal government or other entities acting on the federal government’s behalf or at the federal government’s request may conduct geoengineering experiments by intentionally dispersing chemicals into the atmosphere, and those activities may occur within the state of Tennessee. This new bill seeks to outlaw any such activities, stating that the intentional injection, release, or dispersion by any means of chemicals, chemical compounds, substances, or apparatus within the borders of the state into the atmosphere with the express purpose of affecting temperature, weather, or the intensity of the sunlight is prohibited.” If the House bill passes, Tennessee would become the first of the states to establish a legal framework explicitly prohibiting the spraying of chemtrails of chemicals for geoengineering purposes, potentially setting a precedent for other states to follow in addressing concerns around environmental and atmospheric manipulation. Hopefully more states will follow suit. And up next is today’s interview with Dr. Jane Donegan. Dr. Donegan is a homeopathic and naturopathic practitioner registered with the Homeopathic Medical Association, Homeopathy International, and the Association of Naturopathic Practitioners. She’s a member of the British Society of Ecological Medicine and a patron of the College of Naturopathic Medicine. She no longer practices as a medical doctor, as the requirement to put NHS policy before the best interest of her patient is not why she chose medicine as a vocation. Repeated applications to deregister from the General Medical Council were rejected by the council over a period of four years. But eventually, in July 2023, her name was at last erased from the register, leaving her free to continue her holistic work without interference. Christoph Ploth had a chance to sit down with Dr. Donegan recently to delve into the current and past measles scare, including the facts, myths, and effective strategies. You can learn more about Dr. Donegan and more about the measles on her website at jane-donegan.co.uk. Without further ado, let’s hear what Christoph and Jane have to say about this very important topic. Welcome to another episode of an exciting interview in our room here. Tonight it’s with Dr. Jane Donegan, and she’s a homeopath and naturopathic practitioner, but has an extensive medical background as well. So thank you very much. We’ll be very, very excited. We’re very excited to hear from you on your perspective on the new measles scare. So welcome for tonight, Jane. And thank you very for your time. You’re on a holiday. So we really, really appreciate you taking your time. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Christoph. Yes. Well, what is it? Time and tide wait for no man and the same with diseases. So even though I’m on holiday, I’m here and I do have an extensive medical background because I have been a doctor for 40 years. in general practice, I’m now retired. So there has been this scare, certainly in the United Kingdom about measles, which they say is because of lowered uptake rates. There’s a lot of things to do with medicine, which have been completely changed because of COVID. And if there is any low uptake rate, it’s because people closed all the surgeries and wouldn’t let anybody come in. And now they’re trying to restore the balance. And One of the best ways of getting people to comply with anything, as we saw in spades with COVID is to make them afraid. So they’re telling everybody that the vaccination rates have gone down. And so all the children are going to basically die of measles. Nobody’s telling them how you should manage measles or any feverish disease. It’s all about, please be very scared. And it must be said that a large number of the cases are in places like the Midlands, Whereas down here in London, in Hackney, there’s a 56% uptake of MMR vaccine. And that’s not the focus of where all these cases are because there’s a lot more to immunity than antibodies that you can get from vaccines. So one of the things that I think is very important when we’re looking at measles as a specific disease is to see what it was that stopped people dying from measles. Because one of the reasons we’re told we must vaccinate, and I was told this as a doctor, and this is certainly why most doctors think that if you don’t vaccinate, you’re ignorant. And if you’re not ignorant, you’re sociopathic. Because otherwise, why would you deny this? What we see as a lifesaving intervention and put for your own child and put all the other children and now we’ve been told adults at risk. And this is to do with medical education. So if we look at the first slide, we can see that this is from the Green Book. Now, the Green Book is short for Immunisation Against Infectious Diseases Handbook. You know, we don’t have enough time to say all those words. So we call it green because when it was in hard copy, it was green. So this is what you see when you’re a doctor. If you decide to look in that book that tells you all the things you’re supposed to know about vaccination and how to administer them. And you’ll see if you look carefully that it starts in 1940. And you’ll see the zigzag pattern because measles epidemics normally come along about every two years. And you’ll see the measles vaccine coming in here and 1968 in the UK, five years later than the United States. And you’ll see the cases seem to be coming down and then the mRNA vaccine comes in and then they go down more. And of course, you don’t see where they start coming back up again. And of course, a lot of people will look at this measles vaccine entry and say, oh, look what a great effect it had. We know anyway that graphs don’t show causality, they just show association in time, but it still looks pretty good. But you have to realise that when the measles vaccine first came in, there was only a 30% uptake because most parents said, well, why would you need a vaccine for measles? It’s just a normal childhood disease. In fact, they looked at measles as we do now at chickenpox in this country, but not in America because they’re scared to death because there’s a vaccine. But soon this country will be the same because we’re about to introduce a chickenpox vaccine here. In fact, the uptake rate for measles vaccine didn’t get above 50% until 1980. And it was only in the 90s that we had the uptake rates over 90% for all of the vaccines that we give. We never had such high uptake rates. So that’s the sort of graph that I saw when I was a medical student. at my top London medical school with my top London professors and my top London textbooks. When I started looking into what was going on because I started studying homeopathy as well and people kept saying to me that, you know, people stopped dying before the vaccines were introduced. So I tried to find a book that would show this was true from people who were doctors, not homeopaths and osteopaths and naturopaths. And I found some there in America, but I needed some from the UK. I needed to look at UK figures. So I actually went along to the Office for National Statistics myself because they didn’t have any graphs that started before the 1940s for the common childhood illnesses against which we vaccinate only for smallpox and TB. So I went along with my four and six year old children and I got all the mothy books out until 1899. And then thankfully, after that, there was a very expensive user unfriendly CD-ROM that I could take home and at least fight with without having my children in a national science reference library. And so here you will see on the next slide, just remember, look at that 1940 there, look at the vaccine coming in at 1968. So here are the deaths from measles. You can’t it’s not too clear, but this is 1901. Down here is 1968. It’s actually slightly further along because when I do those when I put do the data sheet and turn it into a graph that sometimes the legend moves along but whether it’s in exactly the right place or not you can see that the graph that they were showing you which was from 1940 which is about here is not untrue but you can see there was a massive massive massive decline in deaths before there was a vaccine which was here and before there were even antibiotics which were here and one of the reasons uh parents say vaccinate is after we hope they’ve balanced the risk and the benefit. Now, obviously, if you’re being told if you have the vaccine, your child’s going to stay alive. And if you don’t have the vaccine, your child’s going to die. You’re prepared to put up with quite a lot of adverse reactions that you can see in the package insert if you think you’re protecting somebody against death. But if you actually look and see that all the people stopped dying, I mean, there were a couple of people dying, but they’re always exceptions. They’ve usually got underlying conditions or it’s due to the way they’ve been managed medically, which is usually against the guidelines in terms of antipyretics, that’s fever lowering agents. And in fact, the people, in countries where we still have the type of conditions that we had in the United Kingdom and in Europe 150 years ago, which is basically drinking sewage, being on the edge of starvation, living in damp, underventilated housing. Maybe your parents are dead or they’ve got HIV or you’re in a refugee camp. Those children are still dying of measles because it’s not really the measles that’s killing them. It’s the coot of grass. It’s the it’s their poor immune system because they don’t have the basic wherewithals for life, which are clean water, adequate food, ventilated housing, someone to love and look after you, fresh air. And we hope a bit of sunshine, not so much of that in the British Isles, but we still do get some. So that’s looking at at Now, if you look at children, this is not my graph. This is a graph from Professor Thomas McEwan, who was a emeritus professor of social medicine in Birmingham and a past president chairman of World Health Organization Health Research Strategy Committee. He looked at children below the age of 15, which is what most people who are worried about measles are thinking about. They’re thinking about children, not adults. And he wrote a book called The Role of Medicine, and he looked at why people died or lived or lived longer or lived more healthily between about 1850 and 1950. And at the end of it, he concluded that why people live longer was not because of physicians. It was because of surgeons and hygiene. And I don’t mean bleaching everything your child touches. A bit of peck of dirt a day is what you’re supposed to have. You have to have a scruffy childhood so you meet little germs so you know what to do with big ones. And this is his graph looking at under 15-year-olds. And he says, basically, it shows that the death rate per went from 1000 per million population in the mid 19th century, the 1850s, to virtually zero by the mid 1960s. And he said, that was the reason that people stopped dying. So it When I look at this, I remember when I was phoned up by a radio station back at the end of the 90s and some psychology journal had just published an article or a study about parental attitudes to MMR vaccine. This was just about the time the whole Andrew Wakefield furore was kicking off. And they said to me that their study had shown that parents make decisions about MMR vaccination based more on emotion than And what did I think about that? And I said, well, actually, I thought that was very true. And not only that, I thought the government encouraged them to do that because about that time, I haven’t seen it this time, I don’t have a television, but about that time, there used to be a peak time advert which showed a baby in a nappy sitting on the edge of a cliff. And on the other side of the baby with the nappy was a lion with a big, enormous mane. And the voiceover said, You wouldn’t leave your child deliberately exposed to danger like this, would you? Give them the MMR vaccine. Well, if that isn’t appealing to emotion, tell me what is. Because if you showed them this graph, some people would say, I don’t care about the graph. I don’t care if everybody stopped dying. I think vaccines are great. I want my child to have every vaccine. The more vaccines, the better. But there are some parents who might say, well, you know, really, if everybody sort of like mostly stopped dying and either I had measles myself or nowadays my parents and my grandparents had measles and if it If they’d all died, I wouldn’t be here. You know, maybe I prefer my child to get real measles, develop good quality, long-lasting antibodies, which will protect my grandchildren in the womb and for the first 18 months of life by transpositional antibodies. Maybe I prefer to do that, but at least you’d be giving them some kind of real scientific choice rather than scaring them. So I think that’s all I’ll say about that for the moment. We can stop looking at the screen. Well, thanks. Well, one thing that’s striking, I mean, on your website, you have a beautiful title, The Song Remains the Same. This has been a saga that has been going on for quite a while. We’re in a war with all kinds of pathogens, viruses, bacteria, anything, and we try to fight it. And as you said, the main endpoint of any study or consideration should be the avoidance of death. So when we’re talking about the disease that has declined in death rate before the introduction of a vaccine, what about the risks of the vaccine? Nobody is talking about that. Can you say something that you know about the potential risks on the other hand? OK, so when it comes to risks, I don’t talk about risks too much because when it comes to risk, it’s like I say it’s white. You say it’s black. What I do encourage people to do is to look at the package insert and people raise their hands in despair and say, where can I find that? Well, if you have the Internet, you put EMC, Echo Mike Charlie drug into your search engine. And that brings up the electronic medicines compendium for the UK. Okay. You can also, and in the search box, you put something in like diphtheria, it will give you all the diphtheria containing vaccines, measles. It will give you all the measles containing vaccines. And then you can see what the names are and, There’s two choices. There’s the pill, PIL, which is the patient information leaflet. And there is the SMPC, which is the summary of product characteristics, which is what your doctor is supposed to read. I don’t know if they have. That one is standardized. You can see what’s in the vaccine, the active components. Section 6.1 is the excipients, what’s in it. You can look at fertility, breastfeeding. you have to realise that these vaccines that are made for children are not tested for fertility because they say we’re not giving them to people who might be able to have children. even though we hope these children will have children. But now if they decide you’re not immune to rubella before you get pregnant, you get an MMR vaccine that’s never been tested for its effect on fertility. So you can look at what’s in there. They give you the numbers, one in 10, one in 100, one in 1,000, one in 10,000, one in 100,000. It’s a well-known and accepted fact that adverse reactions are underreported by between 10 and 100 times. And I would say probably that with vaccines, it’s even more than that. So when you look at those numbers, those are the very basic minimum. And even if you look at a terrible outcome, like death or severe disability, and it says one in 100,000, well, we know it’s more frequent than that, but even take one in 100,000. That means that for the UK with about 700,000 children being born each year, that means there’s going to be seven. And if you look at the childhood, the first set of two, three and four month vaccines, you get them three times. So that’s three times seven. So that’s 21. So that’s at least 21 children who are dying or becoming severely, severely disabled from diseases for which they have a zero chance of being dead or disabled from, especially if you manage their fevers properly. So, as I said, when it comes to the actual adverse reactions, there’s been no open egalitarian systematic actually looking to see what the adverse reactions are for vaccines since they have been part of the universal system in 1960. There is a lot that you can find when you look into studies. But one of the problems with studies is that basically, unless you’re, you don’t have to be that good at doing it. I do a lecture on how to read scientific papers, which the general public then catch onto really well. But I can tell you doctors don’t read them like that. But one of the, the person who in, the case I was in who used to be an under secretary of state for health in the UK, who now runs clinical trials. He says he, he runs, he rings up companies to do a trial and they say, well, Peter, what result do you want? And because if you know what results somebody wants, you can structure the method of the trial to get that result for you. So I tend to look more at health, how you manage a fever, which is really important and how people stopped dying before the vaccine came in. And I think that when you talk enough about that, you don’t need to talk so much about the adverse reactions because everyone’s going to argue about those anyway. They’ll say, oh, it’s not true and it doesn’t have anything to do with autism. And certainly it’s not the MMR is not the only vaccine. Originally, I think it was the wholesale whooping cough one. And they ignore everything around, just like everybody’s ignoring the massive increase in overall death rate. And the doctors are baffled as to why it has been happening since 2021. and totally not looking at the intervention that was given to about, I don’t know, 5 billion people in the world, not me. I mean, if I may throw in a number there when it comes to side effects, in a 10-year period in the United States, there were 463 deaths reported after the MMR vaccine, and there were none. If you then add the underreporting factor, which absolutely is probably much more than 100, you come up with a completely different number in terms of the most serious side effect you can have. You also mentioned the antibodies. And we know, as you said, the antibodies of the natural infections, they’re lifelong. What do we know about the duration of the antibodies of the vaccine? Well, before we had the COVID, scare, we had a scare in Europe about measles and people dying of measles and they omitted to mention that the children dying of measles were actually babies below the age of 18 months and they were born to vaccinated mothers. Because as I said, all that vaccines give you is antibodies. Even when they’re testing them to market them, they don’t test them to see if they stop you getting whatever disease they’re marketed against. They just test you to see if you’re producing antibodies. And antibodies are not the whole story because that’s only the specific immune system. And that’s the top of the immunity pyramid. The base and the middle are the innate immune system, which has nothing to do with I met it before. nothing to do with I’ve got specific antibodies to it and all to do with clean water adequate food etc and all of those things and when you have so you can have lots of antibodies and get a disease and have no antibodies and not get the disease but the particular problem with measles is that when you get the when we used to give it to children who were 12 to 15 months then they had measles outbreaks in schools primary schools so then we in introduced the preschool one And now we have outbreaks in universities and there was a tanker a couple of years ago which had US Navy personnel and it had to sail around the Persian Gulf for about four or five months because these multiply vaccinated US Army recruits, Navy recruits, the same system, kept on getting mumps. First of all, they called it a mumps-like illness. And in the end, they gave up and called it mumps. And then no one would let them stop there. They were having to airlift food in there. One of the things you can guarantee when you join the Army of the United States is you get more vaccines than anybody else in the country would get with possibly the exception of Finland or Israel. And so they probably had three lots, many of them, and they had to vaccinate them all again. So the antibodies you get from vaccinations don’t last so long. Whereas when you have properly managed measles, you’ll have antibodies that last for life. And when you’re a woman, you’ll pass antibodies across your placenta that will protect your baby till they’re 18 months. And as I said, these babies that were dying in Europe before we stopped worrying about them and got worried about COVID, they were below the age of 18 months. Why? Because they had vaccinated mothers. And they shouldn’t have been dying anyway. I mean, there’s no excuse for someone dying of measles. And one of the things that makes an enormous difference to mortality, which is dying, and morbidity, which is being ill, is the way we fight the body’s own defenses. All we think about are antibodies. We forget all these other things we have, like skin and tears and lysozyme and enzymes and all these things. And fever is massively important. When children have measles, they are going through a particular developmental step. And in fact, in the 1950s, when everybody had stopped dying of measles, there was a GP called Dr. Fry, who was a great information collector. And the British Medical Journal interviewed him and said, can you tell us what your findings are from this measles epidemic? This is before we introduced the vaccine. And he said, well, a lot of mothers said how much better their child was doing after a good dose of measles, as they called it. People regarded that and things like chickenpox as developmental steps. And they are. There are certain developmental steps that are the chickenpox ones. There are certain developmental steps that are the measles detox. And when you go through them appropriately, you come out better at the other end. And when you don’t, you miss out. And when my journey was starting from being a person who was rabidly pro vaccination to a person who was actually knowledgeable about vaccination, I saw a headline in an editorial in the British Medical Journal which said, autoimmunity is the price one pays for the eradication of infectious disease. And I thought, well, that’s amazing. This is the British Medical Journal and this is a proper professor of immunology. I must write to him and ask him where the quote is from. And I wrote to him and he answered me and he said, well, it’s not so much a quote. It’s just that we know that the human immune system developed under the insult, as we call it, of all these common childhood diseases. And that’s how we learn what to do with our immune system. And when you stop that happening, It doesn’t learn. He wasn’t anti-vaccine. He was talking about it from a different point of view. And immunologists now, when they look at the massive rise in asthma and eczema and type 1 insulin-dependent diabetes and so on, they’re saying, oh, it’s because children don’t meet enough dirt. We need to make a vaccine based on dirt. And what we need to do is just let children have their normal childhood diseases and manage them properly, not block off all their fevers with paracetamol and ibuprofen. I mean, you just talked about the motives of getting a vaccine and about one aspect that is fear. Fear is being created in order to increase the uptake. In most European countries, it’s even more than that. It’s mandatory by now. But always it is said that herd immunity has to be high enough in order to eradicate a disease. It started with about 50%. Now we’re at 95% during the COVID period. Well, we see huge outbreaks in the heavily vaccinated countries. In China, even with over 100%, we see big measles outbreaks. What can you tell us about that? Well, when I do my lecture on vaccination, the question, I have a big slide, which is a picture of a red fish, which I get people to say what it is, and it’s a red herring, and this is herd immunity. Herd immunity was first described by a Baltimore medical officer called Hedrich. And he noticed that when there were cases of measles, once about two thirds of people had either had it before or they got it now, it would just die off for a bit. So that’s two thirds, about 66%. He didn’t call it herd immunity, people did afterwards. And they forgot about his paper for a while, but then it was resurrected in the 40s and 50s when coincidentally there was a measles vaccine coming up. However, the United States and his paper was full of caveats full of but this wasn’t controlled and that wasn’t controlled and the other wasn’t controlled. However, the United States took 70% as the level that they thought would be enough to stop measles. And when you start looking at the the scientific papers from 1963 onwards, you see them say, you know, 70% will eradicate measles. Oh, we haven’t Oh, dear cases are rising. Oh, we better add an extra one. And Professor Paul Fine, who’s one of the world experts on herd immunity in his paper called Herd Immunity, looks at different diseases and he gives different percentages of what you need to have to eradicate it. So he thinks for diphtheria, it’s about 50%. What they did with herd immunity was they took number one anyway, they took real disease and said that having a vaccine will be the same thing, which it isn’t. And Professor Paul Fine said, well, when it comes to measles, because of its particular characteristics, it’s possible that there’s no percentage that will be enough. So in the UK now, we say when we get 95%, we’ll eradicate it. And this is now with two, because when it first came in, it was, oh, it’s just like the disease, one shot for life. And now it’s two, and it’s three when you go to universities where there’s outbreaks. And the reason that they use the figure 95%. The scientific reason is because 70 didn’t do it 75, not 18 or 85, not 90, not 95. And when that doesn’t do it, they’ll say 99. And it’s not based on any science is just based on what the previous figure didn’t do it. Now, I write for a publication called the informed parent and I decided to do a particular article on herd immunity and I got Hedrich’s papers out again and I looked at them and when I looked at them I found actually that this one-third that didn’t get measles when two-thirds had had it and then it died off again there’s one or two cases and then when there was another unvaccinated or well un-measled set it would come back sporadically most of these children were below the age of 18 months Below the age of 18 months in those days, the mothers would have passed on good quality, long lasting antibodies. So it’s actually possible that the sort of father of herd immunity, although he didn’t call it herd immunity, was actually describing the protection given by transpresental antibodies. And that herd immunity has never existed at all. I mean, one thing we learned as an observer now in the COVID times is that viruses do change all the time. We’ve known this with the flu vaccine, that the flu vaccine of the last year isn’t as efficient, in inverted commas, as the one in this year. And with COVID, where we’re constantly told, oh, the virus is evolving, so we need a new vaccine in order to to deal with it. By the time it came out, we had another strain, but that’s another story. But the main virus strain that’s used is still the Edmonton strain that’s from 1954, so that’s quite a way back. Now we have completely different so-called genotypes of this virus. Do we have any idea how effective the so-called vaccine is still against a strain that hasn’t existed for decades? it never seems to worry people too much about strains. They say things like, we expect it to have cross coverage, which is really interesting because I’m the person who tries to give people enough information to make informed decisions about health interventions. I need a reference for the word the, okay. They can just say things like, oh, we think it will be, there’ll be cross protection and that’s fine. They don’t need any, any background or any backup or any signs or any what they call evidence at all. I must say you are speaking to a person who thinks that actually the viruses that we see in people’s bloodstreams are actually breakdown products of cells. And I think that they’re doing detoxes of different sorts and amounts. And I think one of the reasons you get an antibody response to having a vaccination is because you’re giving you’re actually injecting into the body a whole load of toxins. it’s not it’s it’s not a conspiracy theory to call some of the things in the vaccines particularly the dead ones things like for like aluminium salts toxins they’re putting there because they’re toxins because the body’s not stupid it only makes immune responses against things that are problematic so in the mmr it doesn’t have aluminium but it has uh all these organ all these uh products and the body makes a response to it because they’re toxins it’s just it’s trying to get rid of them So I don’t, and that’s why also, I don’t think that vaccines are very good at stopping people getting what they need to do. The body doesn’t detox along that detox at the time. It just saves it till later. And you just keep putting off and putting off. However, if you’re a manufacturer, it’s fab, because if you’re a car manufacturer and you said, here’s this car, it might last for five years. It might just break in two years. But anyway, when it does break, you get no part exchange and the insurance doesn’t cover it. You might say, well, I might go to the garage down the road that it lasts a bit longer, but if you’re a vaccine manufacturer, the worse it works, the better it is for you. Because people just keep asking you to make more and more doses instead of saying your product obviously doesn’t work, how do you make one that does? It’s a great business model. I mean, the Corvelva organization in Italy demonstrated, and that was repeated several times, that over 130 different toxins, that’s from other viruses to metals, to other things, were to be found in the most commonly used MMR vaccine in Europe. But there’s one thing that nobody seems to be talking about. That’s the DNA from aborted fetuses in the MMR vaccine. What can you tell us about that? Well, it’s interesting you say about that. I don’t know about the MMR because I wasn’t looking, but I was just looking for the chickenpox vaccine. And it’s very interesting how different the data sheets are in America than they are in the UK. so the uk says oh it’s made on aborted fetal tissue and it gives you the name in in the united states one it says there are dna from these cells present in the vaccine and when I wrote to the the drug companies the same ones that make the vaccine in america here saying look this is what your us data sheet says this is what the uk one says uh is it different can you tell me what it is they said we can’t answer you because you’re not a registered doctor why why can’t I just ask if I’m a parent why can’t I just ask if I’m a recipient you know why are you hiding it from me but there you go yes so there is dna and there is rna and we see that certainly with things like polio polio vaccines particularly what we call the live ones so yes we are interfering with people’s dna and rna in these these drugs and in these vaccines and people don’t worry about it because it’s when people stop using ethics and they stop using morals and they just start looking at what an end point is I’m not even talking about profit here I’m just talking about somebody in a laboratory we talk about the mad scientist and they just go on and on to the nth degree and they don’t know morally or ethically where they need to stop or morally or ethically where where the boundary is But one thing I did want to say was about the measles. So you get measles. So what do you do? It doesn’t matter if it’s measles, chicken pox, mumps, cocksackie, you know, whatever it is, it’s all the same. You get a fever. The fever is specially designed to make your liver detoxify faster, your kidneys filter faster, your white cells gobble things up faster. Usually your appetite goes down. Why? Because if you’re trying to do a detox, the last thing you need to do is stuff yourself up with more things that you need to process. And children and animals naturally fast. when they’re not well. But by the time we’ve grown up with our parents saying, you’ve got to eat, you’ve got to eat, by the time we’ve grown up, we’ve lost our self-regulating capacity. The other thing is, the other good reason for not eating, as opposed to drinking, which is crucial, not eating when you’re not well, is that between your throat and the other end, that produces 80% of the immune cells of your body. So while they’re not being busy digesting, they can produce all these immune cells. Then you might have diarrhea and vomiting. That’s depending on what started it off. You know, did you not keep the temperature of the takeaway at the right temperature? And then the last thing is you might have a rash, which is stuff coming out through your skin. Those are the acute ones. You can also have endless mucus, but that’s a slower one. And what we do, because doctors tell us and nurses tell us and health professionals tell us is you must get the fever down or you might have febrile convulsions or you just must have the fever down. In 2007 in the UK, NICE, the National Institute for Clinical and Healthcare Excellence said, do not give antipyretics, that’s anti-fever agents, for the sole purpose of reducing a fever in an otherwise well child. And you might say, well, how can they be well if they’ve got a fever? Well, you can be boiling hot. You know, you can feel the heat from here. But if they’re alert when they talk to you or they’re sleeping peacefully, they’re drinking well, they’ve got nice wet nappies or pale urine, you know, that’s well. Then that was in 2007, quite some time ago. Then in 2008. they said the same thing, they repeated that, and then they said, not calling them antipyretics anymore, they said, do not give paracetamol and ibuprofen to stop febrile convulsions, otherwise known as seizures, because they don’t. And they also said, give paracetamol and ibuprofen for distress, only as long as there’s distress, do not give them both together, only consider giving a dose of the second one if the distress returns before the dose of the first one is due. Now, I can’t tell you how many people wake their children up who are asleep to give them paracetamol or ibuprofen, and how many doctors tell people to give paracetamol and ibuprofen together, which is associated with increased mortality, which is death, and morbidity, which is illness. And quoting a bulletin from the World Health Organization written in 2000 by a professor of pediatrics in Texas, he says, fever is an ancient adaptive response for which there are a few of any good reasons to suppress. And he goes on to say that overall, it probably doesn’t cause much of a problem, but that’s because people aren’t looking for it. But he says, but it does increase mortality, which is death and morbidity in both developed and developing countries. And the These were repeated in 2019, so they’re still up to date. And so since 2007, we’ve been telling people not to give paracetamol and ibuprofen for fever and that it doesn’t stop febrile convulsions. And yet, I have had patients who’ve been in accident and emergency departments with a child who’s had a first verbal conversion, only one parent, because it’s COVID, so the other one isn’t allowed in, with doctors and nurses insisting that they give paracetamol or ibuprofen against the person’s wishes and then being out, or they threaten them with social services. They say, if you don’t do what we’re saying, we’re going to make your child a ward of court or admit them and then you won’t be able to do anything about them. And in that same hospital where the mother obviously gave in, on the discharge summary, because you know we don’t write anything anymore, you put in heart attack and it gives a whole load of words, you don’t have to type them. When whoever was doing the discharge summary put in febrile seizure, the blurb, the words that come out from the computer say, febrile convulsions are not associated with the height of the fever, but the speed with which it rises and antipyretic should not be given for this purpose in the very hospital where they were threatened with intervention by social workers. So there is a big problem with the medical profession who don’t even follow their own guidelines except for the vaccination ones. Well, unfortunately, we live in a very profit-oriented medical system. And of course, you just mentioned the two most effective treatment options, fasting and fever, which are not to be compensated financially to anybody in the healthcare profession. I was recently talking to a doctor who’s taking care of a COVID unit at a local hospital around here and asked them what they can do. And she said, well, there’s actually nothing you can do against the virus. So we just give them the normal hospital food. We look that they drink enough, which also sweetened drinks. And then if they’re not well enough, we get them to intensive care. And she didn’t know what was done on intensive care. If to me, it was a picture of where we are at the moment. So especially getting into the, into the root and that’s the medical training. I mean, I talked to several medical students in the last few years, what they would do in infectious diseases. If you were to design a medical curriculum for the future medical students, what would you tell them? You said it wouldn’t be just for measles, it would be for many infectious diseases. Could you just give a summary? Because I’d love to get more of your wisdom, but we’ve prompts to not to steal too much time of your holiday and we already stole another 15 minutes so if you could just summarize um because there’s there seem to be certain factors that if they’re not there they they’re predisposed to yeah a more severe outcome uh vitamin a etc uh but certainly in our world uh the management could be very very simple what would be your suggestion Well, in the medical school curriculum, I would get them to study health and not disease because we studied disease and we cut up dead bodies who are by definition not very healthy. And I would teach them that the body is very intelligent and will always work towards fixing itself so long as you give it the basic wherewithals. And certainly someone who’s ill, apart from not suppressing all their fevers and fighting the body, you need to give them lots and lots and lots of fluid. And in terms of measles, if you wouldn’t just mind putting that… that slide up again for two seconds. I went to can we can we put the slides up for a minute? Linda, could you help us? OK, never mind. I don’t have to do it myself. Maybe she’s not there. OK, I was going to say A study in 1932 showed that of children in hospital with measles, and that’s very, very rare because about 2% in those days of children with measles got admitted to hospital. So these are severely, severely ill ones. Giving them cod liver oil reduced the death rate by 58%. And the other thing from back in those days, because I read old textbooks, because if you read new ones, they just say, oh, you know, the diseases will kill you. The vaccines are safe and effective given the vaccines. They don’t give you any understanding of the disease. So I would teach medical history, proper medical history. And it was saying that the best place for a child with measles is in a hospital. And I thought, how can that be? Because we know that when you have measles, the disease or measles, the vaccine, they both lower one type of your immunity called cell mediated, which you particularly need for dealing with viruses and things like tuberculosis. So hospitals are just the worst place to send someone who’s got measles into, or even if they just had a measles vaccine. And then I looked at the paper more and it turned out that the hospitals were open air hospitals and people were living in damp, under ventilated slums and basements and tenements. And so actually taking them to a beautiful open air hospital made all the difference. And it still makes all the difference now. You need to open the window when people are not well. Yeah, well, thank you for closing with these remarks that instead of reacting again in fear, we can actually regain trust and confidence in the beautiful intelligence of our bodies. And we can actually prove that it works because it has led us where we are now. We haven’t been raised by measles. nor have we been erased by any other infectious diseases. So thank you so much for your time. And I hope we’ll continue with the conversation because it seems like it’s going to be a very, very important one for the next weeks and months to follow. So thank you very much for your time and enjoy your holiday. Thank you. And thank you, Christoph, for inviting me. All the best. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Okay, thank you to Christoph and to Dr. Donegan for this wonderful interview. Again, this was a prerecorded interview, so we don’t have either of them available right now for Q&A, but I wanted to draw your attention to Dr. Jane Donegan’s website. If you want to dig a little bit deeper into anything that she was talking about, she has a really wonderful comprehensive page here on her website. If you just go to jane-donaghan.co.uk, right up at the top in capital letters, you can click on measles outbreaks here. This is a very long, comprehensive piece that answers a lot of questions. And there’s multiple citations in here. So you can click to be taken down to the citations or whatever. read the whole thing, and I believe she might have referenced this at the beginning of her presentation. This article actually first appeared in the Informed Parent back in 2011. So she did tell us about this comprehensive article. Here are all of the references links to learn more so I will put that link in the show notes and into the chats where everybody is watching this right now I encourage you to look at that one it’ll probably be a good one to share as well and we’re going to play out today with another great little video that our resident health coach linda ray made for us about natural ways to protect against various infections just to boost your immunity so We’re going to play that. Thank you, everybody, for joining us today. If you want to watch this again later, share it, whatever you might want to do with it, it’s going to stay up on our website in the newsroom, and you’ll also be able to find it in our video library. It’s also going to stay up wherever it’s streaming. If you’re watching it on one of the streaming platforms, we’re live right now on Facebook, LinkedIn. Twitter, Getter, Rumble. I think that’s it. So thank you again, everybody for watching us. If you are not yet signed up for our email newsletter or giving us a monthly donation or a one-off donation, you can do all of those things on our website. If you head over to worldcouncilforhealth.org in the top right corner, we’ve got a link to our shop, to our newsletter, as well as a link for donating right up there. So thank you. And we’ll see you all next week. Thank you for watching this episode of Better Way today. If you found value in it, please consider making a value exchange with us. The World Council for Health is a grassroots people’s organization and we rely on funding from people just like you. Your contributions from as little as $5 or £5 or 100 Rand help to power our work. The World Council for Health team is on a mission to serve you. Please make it your mission to support us. Thank you.